Close More Car Sales
Listen in on another How To Sell More Cars podcast conversation.
We talk about how to close more car deals with special guest Chris Martinez, former Platform Director at Jackie Cooper Imports in Tulsa and author of The Closer: The Automotive Professional's Guide to Closing The Deal.
We chat about overcoming objections, building trust and rapport, and the exact language to use to close more car sales at your dealership today.
HOW TO SELL MORE CARS PODCAST
- How to sell more cars. 0:14
- Welcome to the how to sell more cars podcast. Chris Martinez is today's guest.
- Today's topic is closing more deals, and Chris's new book : The Closer
- What do you want to be when you grow up? 1:56
- One of his favorite books is a book about how the kids realize they want to take care of customers and treat people right and make things happen.
- His kids have taken the book to their show and tell and it's been a lot of fun.
- The role of closing in today's market and why it's important, and how it's changed.
- The two distinctions of closing a deal, the to, where the salesperson is trying to help the customer push them further into the sales process, and the c, when the customer is on the right deal.
- How to know when to bring in the big guns? 6:37
- How to know when it's time to bring in the big guns to make that commitment.
- The three kinds of salespeople, the opener, the person bringing them in off the street, the cooler and the closer. The cooler is the guy or girl that can talk really well to the customer.
- Making friends is good for business, but it has to be done with some intentionality.
- Some people get stuck in some areas and don't graduate to the next level.
- The art of persuasion is the art of making things easy. 10:54
- The art of persuasion is the art of making things easy, not difficult, and closing is about making things easier.
- One of the best things to do to help push a customer to that next step is to ask the right question.
- The other manager came in thinking the deal was done, and Brad was the only sales manager there.
- A salesperson couldn't close the deal. Brad gave it to the greenest green pea on the floor, and they did the deal, so it's just little things like that.
- The car is the deal. 16:04
- 80% of the people who walk into the dealership know exactly what they want with a deal when they walk in, but they walk out with something completely different.
- It's not just the car, it's the deal. The car is the deal, how to land on the right thing.
- The rule of seven states that someone has to see something at least seven times to be influenced to make a decision.
- The best known product is better than the best product and that they don't know you. The best product is the best one.
- Holding the conversation well. 21:36
- As long as you are holding the conversation well, you are just having conversation with the new friend, that's all you're doing and it should go and flow pretty smoothly.
- There's a little trick chris picked up from some folks a while back that he's going to share.
- The last third of the book is about word tracks, the difference between training an hour a day and training anhour a week.
- How he learned the word tracks.
- One piece of advice for salespeople. 25:24
- The final piece of advice Chris would give to a salesperson trying to make a career and anongoing business to close more deals.
- The greatest single thing an author can do for an author is to read the words that they need to put on paper.
Full Transcript Continued Below
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The Closer: The Automotive Professionals Guide to Closing The Deal
Terry Lancaster 0:14
How to sell more. Everybody Welcome to the How to sell more cars podcast, I am the voice from the sky. They I love to Lancaster I'm hosting today, listening to the podcast before before, if you read my car sales book, how to sell more cars do you know I tell everyone that I have absolutely no use to anyone in that magic window between when someone raises their hand to buy cars and where they actually drive off. I'm the marketing guy. I'm really good at that drive for driving the traffic and building the relationships before the process ever starts. And I got a lot to say about maintaining and keeping those relationships going for years and years and years and generations. And I'm telling who is another one in the book that if you can get enough people in the dealership, if you've got enough people in your life and want to buy a car, there are people in the store who will help you close that deal. I'm pretty excited today because today we got the guy who does just that the guy who closes the deal, Chris Martinez 20 years veteran of the automotive industry seven times best selling automotive author, including his new book, The Closer which is what we're going to be talking about today, closing more deals, the closer the automotive professionals guide to closing the deal. We're gonna talk about building trust. We're going to talk about overcoming objections. And we're going to talk about the exact language that you need to use to close more automotive deals in today's wild and wooly automotive market. But first, I got to ask Chris about this set seven books I looked at this, my favorite was, of course, the children's book when I grew up, I want to be a car salesman.
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When I Grow Up, I Want To Be a Car Salesperson!
Chris Martinez 1:56
That's my favorite one. You know, you know, it's funny the story behind it. You know, in my sales meetings, I've always, you know, kind of like joked about I said, Hey, guys, you know what we get it, nobody says they want to be a car salesman when they grow up. But look at look at where we're at, right? We're doing, we're treating people, right? We're taking care of our customers, we're making dreams happen. And, you know, now I have four kids, you know, I my little ones, you know, I read to them a lot. And now they're a little bit older, you know, six, eight and 10. I have an old my oldest daughter, she's 27. But my my little ones, you know, I was reading to him. And I started asking him, Oh, do you guys want to be when you grow up? And you know, I'm always talking about the car business, you know, how we're selling cars, we're closing deals, I we're, you know, taking care of customers, right? And so they all told me, they wanted to be car salespeople. And I thought that was it was interesting. And one night, I'm reading a book to my son. And I said, Man, you know what, I could write a children's book. I go, you know, I just need a good illustrator. And, you know, this should be pretty, pretty fun. And so I incorporated all my kids in that book. And it was, it was a lot of fun. I put my dogs, my whole family, my wife, everyone's in there. And it's a little story about how the kids you know, realize that they want to take care of customers and treat people right and, you know, pretty dreams and make things happen. So it's a great book. I it's one of my favorite books that I've written. It's actually the fifth my favorite book that I've written. And because it's kind of my family.
Terry Lancaster 3:34
Yeah, I bet I tell you that here's the here's my marketing brain when I went to when I saw I said, Do I hope he had these printed up and sitting on every salespersons desk so in the future wandered around, no causing trouble looking for popcorn. Hey, take take daddy's book, go read this and keep them
Chris Martinez 3:52
occupied. Yeah, they've taken my kids who've taken it to their show and tell and it's been a lot of fun.
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Close more car sales with better conversations
Terry Lancaster 3:59
Well, good. Let's let's let's talk about about The Closer I like I said, I'm the marketing guy. So I talked about bringing the leads into the wind the door, and I'm talking a lot about maintaining the relationships. And you talked about the follow up to I was really happy happy to say that. But let's talk about closing the role of closing in, in today's market is and why it's important, how it's changed. And this is what's the scope?
Chris Martinez 4:23
You know, it's a it's super important. I think what a lot of sales professionals forget to understand that before you go in there and close a deal. You got to make sure that customers sold on that vehicle first, you'd have done your job first, right. And a lot of times you might you know as a closer you might go in on on a to and you start having your you know a couple, you know two minute conversation with them and realize that one year on the wrong car. You're just the wrong it's just that that salesperson hasn't done anywhere near what they should have done. And so in the reality is, is, in order to go and attempt to close, as a sales professional, you have had to have done your job, right. And, and so that's where I think a lot of people think, oh, you know, I'm gonna get up, I get a manager, he's gonna close it for me, and you start having the conversation with the customer. And you understand that the salesman skipped a, b and c part of the steps and you're just like, let's, let's, let's circle back around, and let's see if we can get them further in the process and where they're at. And, and that's, there's really there's two distinctions, right, so the one that's the to where you're trying to help her push them further into the actual sales process. And then the second part is, when you're there you that you know, they're sold on the car, you're on the right, deal. And you're just now there, you need to make sure the numbers work and you're trying to close the deal. So and that's, that's kind of where I break it down. In the closer of, you know, once you've made that you've landed on the right, the right option now it's time to Okay, let's how do we what kind of work tracks can we use? What can we do to help the customer? Say yes, and that's kind of what we broke down?
Terry Lancaster 6:11
Well, and you just got one of the things you talked about, in the book, we said you at some point, you were hesitant as the manager to take the to because you knew how you how you did the deal. And if you got pulled into the deal, well, I'm in the deal now. And I'm gonna be here for I'm in it. And we're gonna, we're here to play by the scarf, I got to drive to Texas with him to pick up the train and whatever it takes, we're gonna we're gonna get the deal done. So is the turnover? How do you know that? How do you know that it's time to bring in the big guns that to make that commitment. So if
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Close the deal by escaping the friend zone
Chris Martinez 6:43
the customers, you know, indecisive, and it's really comes out to a quick question that I'd like to tell customers and say, Hey, if you go in and you talk to the customer, you have your, you know, you built your quick report, but you basically tell them, hey, you know, Mr. Customer on a scale of one to 10, how close to you are at 10 and taking delivery of this vehicle. And if they tell you they're five or six, or they're not even so then you know, you're not even on the right car, there's, there's something wrong with the product, right? So that's where you have to go and you're either gonna have to re demo it, they'll build more value in the in the product, your dealership yourself something, there's some disconnect. And that's where, you know, a lot of salespeople when you go in, if you've got enough, gone in on enough tios you understand that some of the salespeople are just, they're just really, you know, grasping for, you know, something they're trying to, they need a life preserver they're trying to tell you, hey, I need some help. And so you go in on it, and you're not really it's not really a tee off to close, it's more of like, hey, how am I going to help this guy get to the next step?
Terry Lancaster 7:52
You mentioned in the book, I don't think honestly, I've ever seen it really broken down this way. You talked about the three kinds of salespeople, the opener, the person bringing them in off the street, bringing them out a lot greener in the building, the cooler and the closer. So I know what the opener does. And I know I know what the posers Tell me, tell me about the cooler I want to hear about that.
Chris Martinez 8:14
So the cooler is basically the the guy or girl that can that, you know, talks can talk really well to the customer, you know, they can potentially, you know, interject on key cases, they kinda like calm the situation down. But they're, they're making more of a friend instead of asking the tough questions that hey, what can we do to help move you to the next step? There? There's some they've been they've gotten into the friendzone there, they're no, they're not really trying to push them to that next step and close the deal. Yeah, I
Terry Lancaster 8:48
like that book when you when you talk about the friendzone where you spend so much time building the relationship and dancing around and you can cookies or whatever, never actually do the thing. And people get mad about just like just like in high school, you spent six months you know trying to build a relationship with a girl and she goes she's dating your best friend a week later because you never you never got around right? So there's there's something to that, that you can't just be the relationship person you can't just be you're not there to make friends making friends is good for business. But it has to be done with some intentionality.
Chris Martinez 9:23
Absolutely, and I think the most I'm not gonna say the majority of them but there's a big chunk of of the salespeople that are you know, right in the middle, you know, those the 1012 cart salespeople, they kind of get stuck in that, that side of it. And if they just learned to just ask a couple more tough questions, they could get a little further into closing the deal.
Terry Lancaster 9:51
So um, so you got the you got the cooler you got you got the opener of are you thinking that the deal should have Those three different people are disabled play those that same role.
Chris Martinez 10:03
I think everyone can play that same role. I think that some people tend to get stuck in some areas and not really graduate to the next level of trying to get into that relationship type sales professional, or asking the tougher questions and being a real close. I think, you know, some people, you know, usually the green salespeople will get there for, you know, the first, you know, 60 days, maybe they're still kind of just opening it because they're still trying to understand the process, maybe. And some people get it faster than others. But that's kind of usually how the progression is they kind of just, the somebody teaches them the relationship part, you got to be the friend build rapport. And then people just kind of get stuck there and not going after, okay, well, how am I going to really just close this deal? You know, what can I do to help push this customer to that next step and sign?
Terry Lancaster 11:00
Yeah, yeah, one of the things that, I think one of the best things I like is book. Yeah. Benjamin Franklin, quote in here says the art of persuasion is the art of making things easy. Not difficult is closing about making things easier.
Chris Martinez 11:14
Absolutely. You know, when you think about it, how many times you know, you've sold a lot of cars, right? So when you go in on conversations with customers, usually it's just one more question. You're like one more question away from really getting out what the true objection is, so that you can overcome it. And if you just ask the right question, sometimes, it's so easy that the customer just says they just lay down, I give you an example. I was on a to one time, and the salesman must have been with that customer for like three hours. And I walk in the sales tower, and I have a sales manager going on to and like, five minutes later, he comes back in he's gotten his hands in the air. He's got the sheet. He's a man, we're on the wrong car. This lady's there's no way that violence car, I don't know what's going on. I talked to the salesman, I go, what happened? He goes, Well, that's a shocker to me. I've been with him for three hours. They love the vehicle. I mean, they didn't tell me anything why they didn't want this car. I mean, that's why they're still here. And I look and I turn around and they're still in the office. And I go, wow, this is this is unbelievable. So I said, Well, you know what, let me have a crack at it. So I go in there. I talked to the lady and her son. And within a couple of minutes, I find out that the car that she was trying to buy had a scratch on it. And the scratch was probably about three inches long. And I said, So you're telling me, I go well, let me let me do something first. So I got up. I said, Show me the scratch. So I go outside a little scratch. And I looked at her and I go so you're telling me if we fix this, scratch your forward, right? And she said, Yes, I put my hand out and I said, Congratulations. And she shook my hand and we wrapped the deal up. I mean, this was like, it was just like super steep. It was so easy. It was it didn't mean that I was like gonna go put it in a chokehold and make her sign or didn't be crazy. It was just asking a couple more questions, trying to inspect what really happened where we went wrong. And we just move forward and close the deal. Were not sure what happened to that other manager came in thinking the deal was done, like was game over. And we needed to throw the customer out.
Terry Lancaster 13:34
Yeah. I think my favorite story of a movie had another to where you couldn't see a same situation. A salesperson couldn't close the deal. A bedroom salesperson worked on the deal forever and ever and ever. You were trying to avoid it. You know, let's not bring in the big guns just yet. So you literally gave it to the greenest green pee on the floor. I would say
Chris Martinez 13:57
she wouldn't have been on the floor for like 30 days. greenness can be never been in the car business. And he came in and he threw his hands up in the air. And he's like, Oh, this is not a deal. I can't do this deal. And I'm I'm in the middle. I was like the only sales manager there. I'm working like multiple deals. Right? Brad? As he's telling me that walks by a green salesperson, I looked at our goat. I go so you're done with the deal. You're tapping out. And then he says I'm tapping out. And I talked to the young lady and I said that her name was Daisy by the way. She was really really great person as a daisy do me a huge favor. Go in there. Tell him if he stays and I make the call to the bank and I can get a rate concession. Will he do the deed? And I said st just like that. And I believe that the senior salesperson because you already said that right? And he said, Oh yeah, no, I said all of that. said okay, no problem. I said Daisy going to go there and just do that. And then whatever he says, Just draw a line to have him sign and she He goes, Okay, I can do that. Two minutes later, she said it exactly verbatim, because I've asked her to repeat it to me, I go repeat exactly what I say. So she repeats it to me, he goes back, she goes in the office says it verbatim, get some assign comes in, close the deal. So, it just, you know, I, you know, as a desk manager, you have to know what's going on the deal. You're penciling, and you're doing what you're doing. And I knew it was just had to be that there was something about the rate is, you know, I could tell, there was some of the some of the interactions that he was doing. And I don't think the senior salesperson was really getting it. And, and that was just me sitting at the desk, and just understanding the conversations, and getting someone else to just do exactly what I asked them to do. And they dumped they did the deal. So it's just little things like that, that, you know, salespeople just tap out, they just think it's too hard. They're not, they're too frustrated that sometimes that extra face, even just saying the exact same thing he might have said, oftentimes helps.
Terry Lancaster 16:04
So it's one of those situations it was the car there was there was there was a flaw with the car. In another situation, it was the deal. One of the stats for the books is that 80% of the people who walk into the dealership know exactly what they want with a deal when they walk in, but they walk out with something completely different. And then you spend a whole nother chapter on, it's not just the car, it's the deal. So the car is the deal. How do you how do you land on the right thing?
Chris Martinez 16:33
You know, it's funny, because I've told customers, I remember when I was selling cars. And I remember, in order to qualify for 0%, you only need a 660 Beacon score. And I when I found that out, I was like, Wow, are you kidding me? That's like the deal. And, you know, I use that as an advantage people were leaving and say, Hey, folks, you know, I understand you're pressed for time. But let me tell you what a deal is right now. And I told them, Hey, as long as you have a 660 score, we might need to get you 0%. And the minute they heard that they're like, oh, wow, that's that easy. And sure enough, they I'd sell them a car, and they'd be like, Man, I didn't even notice by the carpet. And it was just because I sold them the deal.
Terry Lancaster 17:20
But like, I'm the marketing guy. And I've been saying for 30 years, the most powerful words in marketing are Sale ends Monday, and you talk about the deal, man, that's it's all it's all about getting that little bit of adrenaline push to make them, you know, make them like more than they know not to want it right.
Chris Martinez 17:37
For sure. Absolutely.
Terry Lancaster 17:39
So we're going to talk about I want to talk to you about follow up because that was a that was a good chunk of both. And then we'll talk about word tracks that you got in the book, I just wanna let everyone know, if you've got a question, we're gonna be out of here, just about nine minutes, I'm gonna try to keep everything really quick. If you got a question, if you want to raise your hand or put it up in the chat, I'm gonna come back to you, as soon as we get started there. And unless, Chris, follow up, I mean, you the book is called The closer and there's a whole chapter about follow. He said, at one point in the book that the whole game is don't let them leave, it's like, you know, the game is you gotta you gotta you have to take you have to turn it over, you have to start all over. But if they want to leave, you're about to lose. And a lot of the time, but you say you got 96 days? Once they do, if you do what?
Chris Martinez 18:28
You got to follow up. I mean, I think when I was in sales, you know, when I was on the sales floor, I sold over 30 cars a month. And a lot of the times if I couldn't close them on that on day one, it was the, you know, the amount of follow up that I did, and I mean, there would be times I do a birthday call or something, you know, the 60 day call that nobody wants to make, and people would answer it. I remember one specific conversation I had with a gentleman. I want to say his name was Daniel. And he said that Chris, I don't know if you're just that good. Or you're just the most relentless person that I've ever come across. But I am now ready to buy this car so I won't be there tonight. And sure enough, they got to came in on data day 60 Call and bought a car and and it's just those little things that you just you don't ever forget right because I mean that just how powerful that follow up is that you just you know people are shopping that long. You it's the last last man standing essentially.
Terry Lancaster 19:37
Yeah, if you're if you want them to stick around in your life, why don't you do a better job of sneaking around in there. So it's not it's not rocket science to us. You say we just easy stuff. The work that we do. Well, the quick, the quick text a quick phone call. You talked about sending video messages and sending a handwritten note, a handwritten note to someone you spent three hours on and couldn't close on and use This, this is my handwritten note to thank them for coming in.
Chris Martinez 20:04
Absolutely, just those little things, it's unbelievable how many, you know, when I was also selling, I used to do some my own marketing and I used to, I take this from some real estate professionals. And anytime I sold a card, you know, they get these little, you know, postcards that had like recipes, so they, they be in front of it in front of those customers, like sold every month. So it's just it's a frequency thing, right? And marketing, you know, the rule of seven, you know, the rule of seven states that, you know, somebody has to see something at least seven times to be influenced to make a decision. Well, same thing, you know, you know, following up is a form of marketing. And you have to, you know, reach out to these people, it's all about frequency, the more you in times, and you're in front of the light, more likelihood, they're going to come back. And I think Grant Cardone said this, he says, you know, the best known product is better than the best product. And that they don't know you. I mean, you just, you're not gonna you're not gonna get those at bats.
Terry Lancaster 21:05
So you said the guy didn't know why he was gonna buy the car for I don't know why I'm buying this car. You Well, I know why I bought the car. Wait, once he gets the key to the unconscious mind, we're buying decisions are made. He may not know why he bought the car, but we know why he bought the car frequently. Absolutely, William, I'm gonna put you on camera. Yo, yo, he's got something pleasant to add. So what do you got saying? What do you got to say, buddy? How, how is closing these days?
William J McCormick 21:36
Well, as long as you are holding the conversation, well, like Chris is talking about, I mean, you're just having conversation with the new friend, that's all you're doing. And it should, it should go and flow pretty smoothly. I mean, you know, one of the things I've always preach is, you know, if you're, if you've got a client, they're they're in, they're on an appointment call, all the all the kind of tedious stuff is taken care of, before that customer walks in the door, the paperwork is already pretty much pre written as a work, maybe you're just waiting to finalize the car, and it should be like it, but before you stick that part in there, but everything else is ready to go. And then it's just, you know, print and sign and send it over to the to the office to let him finish out the rest of the deal for you. But yeah, as long as as long as you're just doing everything and what he's saying is so true. I mean, there's there's a little trick I picked up from some folks a while back, I'm gonna share with you guys because because hardly anybody ever does stuff like this, you know, like, I got in the habit of putting a $2 bill in the gas tank as an Easter egg for after the sale. Little handwritten note. You know, thanks for, for trusting me with your business. And now the dealerships got a gas, it's been expired, here's a couple of bucks towards the next tank on me. And sign it, put a card in there. Just remind them who you are. And you'd be surprised the text messages that you'll get a week later. From people just finding these little Easter Angel leaves in the car.
Chris Martinez 23:15
Man, I love that. I've never heard that one before. That's great.
William J McCormick 23:20
Yeah, but it's just it's something unique. You know, I went to I went to the bank and got a whole stack of $2 bills. It was $200. Right? And just peel one off, put it on put a post it note on there that you hey wrote a note to and this leads to find later on. It's
Terry Lancaster 23:55
So the you get the word tracks in there and you talk in there about training the difference between training an hour a day and training an hour a week and training an hour a month, where at what point do the words just do the word tracks and have become your natural rhythm so that so that they're so built in the training that the training is repetitive because your mind automatically goes there?
Chris Martinez 24:30
You know, I recommend car sale training just you got to train every day. I mean role playing. I mean those word tracks for me and the way I learned them is I literally just practice them every day like I felt like there was one word track that I kept seeing repetition on like somebody some objections common objection that I kept hearing here. I would just get that one and write it down or listen to some of the other seasoned veterans. And I would just practice how to overcome that. I would just keep saying and keep saying it. And some people, you know, looked at me like, Man, this guy's always talking himself. But I'd be out there in the back and just kind of just role playing by myself, to try to make sure that I got this, you know, I wanted to make sure that I not only fed my family and, you know, sold a bunch of cars, but I wanted to be number one. So it was it was, it was worth it for me.
Terry Lancaster 25:24
So we're about to head out the door, if you had one piece of advice that you had to give to, to a salesperson trying to make a career and ongoing business to close more deals, we're looking for just one piece of advice. Let's let's sum it all up.
Chris Martinez 25:39
I tell them that they just got to train. They mean, I think most people, the most dealerships I go and I do some consulting from time to time, they're just not roleplay. And I don't know what it is. But they have to roleplay because I'd rather than, you know, practice and fail in front of someone else, then practice and fail in front of the customer. And if they want to get really good, you're gonna have to roleplay
Terry Lancaster 26:07
I tell everyone, thank you so much for all your for all your time, for free answers for your or your wisdom and ideas. I tell everyone that speaking as an author, the greatest single thing you can do for an author is actually read the words that they bother to put on paper. And then if you if you leave a review, that's, that's just gravy on top. That's just the best thing. So everyone here today, one, thank you for showing up. thanks for popping in and listen to Chris talk about his new book, The closer he got seven great books available on on Amazon. So take a look at those. If you want to show your appreciation for him being with us here today, head over to Amazon and pick up a copy of the book, or, or and or leave the review. Chris, how can we help you? What do you got going on in your life, that we can bring more value to you and make up for the value you brought to us tonight?
You know, I'm good. You know, I've been blessed. You know, God is good. We my family is good. Right now, you know, the biggest thing that I'm working on right now is you know, finding a something that I can say, You know what this is, this is where I want to be. And, you know, I think the some of the things that I've been working on on the side, or I've been doing some consulting for a company called selectFi. And that's a great company that's got some great technology. And, and so I've been doing some work with them.
Shoot me those links. I'm gonna put the show notes up. I'll get links to both of those things going on in there. If anyone else has a question, raise your hand. Speak now or forever hold your case. It's like we're done, Chris. I appreciate you buddy Williams. Always appreciate your time and seeing your face. thanks for popping in. Kelly, thanks so much for popping in. Chris, thank you for your time. We'll see y'all next time do well.
Who the %@#! is Terry Lancaster?
I help car dealers and salespeople sell more cars, make more money, get more reviews, more referrals, and more repeat business by building deeper, stronger, more authentic relationships. I’ve worked with thousands of dealer principals, managers, and salespeople providing proven strategies for making the cash register ring.
Over the years, I've helped thousands of dealers sell millions of cars by putting the right words in the right order to tell the right story. How can I help you tell yours?
My #1 best selling books have received glowing reviews from around the world thanking me for the actionable, life-changing ideas they present.
I’ve been featured in Automotive News & Forbes, spoken at the NADA national convention and from the TedX stage, and came in second place at my Eighth Grade debate championship.
Winner Winner. Chicken Dinner!
In my personal life, I've survived Cancer... twice. I've had a gun held to my head and a knife held to my throat. I've been inside a building that was hit by a tornado, onboard one boat that sank and two planes that I was sure were about to crash.
I lived through three teenage daughters and I've been married over 35 years... in a row!
When I'm not battling for truth, justice and the American Way, I spend most of my free time, like every other middle-aged, overweight, native southerner, at the ice rink playing hockey.